The sentencing guidelines row: A product of poor law-making? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 86

News

The sentencing guidelines row: A product of poor law-making? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 86

4 Apr 2025

The Government has published “emergency legislation” to block new sentencing guidelines. But why does Parliament have limited oversight of the Sentencing Council? Has heavy handed policing interfered with the work of an MP? What do disabled MPs make of Westminster - the building and the procedures? And after a 25-hour speech brought the US Senate to a halt, could it ever happen at Westminster?

LISTEN

The Government has published “emergency legislation” — the Sentencing Guidelines (Pre-sentence Reports) Bill — to block new guidelines coming into effect that single out differential treatment of ethnic minority offenders when ordering pre-sentencing reports. These reports would then be used by judges to make decisions on sentencing. Critics are calling it a case of “two-tier justice.” The Lord Chancellor Shabana Mahmood says there’s “insufficient democratic oversight” of how the Sentencing Council operates.

In this episode, Ruth and Mark examine Parliament’s limited ability to scrutinise Sentencing Council guidelines — why that’s the case, how it could have been different, and why successive governments have failed to address it. They trace the issue back to a 2009 “Christmas Tree” law that had so many policy baubles it was difficult to scrutinise, an enduring trend of outsourcing decision-making to arms-length bodies, and a culture of “perma-crisis” that has defined UK politics for over 15 years.

Also in this episode: Chancellor Rachel Reeves’ big moment before the Treasury Committee is eclipsed by President Trump’s shock international tariff announcement. At the Transport Committee, Heathrow’s Chief Executive issues a full apology for the massive flight disruption caused by a power station fire that brought the Airport to a halt. Meanwhile, MPs with disabilities and health conditions testify before the Commons Modernisation Committee about the challenges they face navigating Westminster - the building and the procedures.

Plus: Did Hertfordshire Police cross a constitutional line by warning former Deputy Prime Minister Oliver Dowden MP not to look into the arrest of two of his constituents over “disparaging comments” they made in their child’s school WhatsApp group? Ruth and Mark consider how other cases involving vexatious constituents have been handled by MPs and how the issues engage parliamentary privilege.

After Cory Booker’s 25-hour speech in the US Senate, could a filibuster ever happen in Westminster? (Spoiler: absolutely not.) And should MPs be lobbying foreign governments to build airports when they oppose them here in the UK?

← Back to Parliament Matters homepage

Listen on our YouTube channel (captioned)

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Resources

House of Commons

Sentencing Guidelines (Pre-sentence Reports) Bill

Sentencing Council

Sentencing guidelines: Imposition of community and custodial sentences

House of Commons Treasury Select Committee

Spring Statement 2025 (2 April 2025): Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP (Chancellor of the Exchequer at HM Treasury), Louise Tinsley (HM Treasury official), and William MacFarlane (HM Treasury official)
- Oral evidence transcript and video recording
Spring Statement 2025 (1 April 2025): Paul Johnson (Institute for Fiscal Studies), Dr Jumana Saleheen (Vanguard Asset Management), and Ruth Curtice (Resolution Foundation)
- Oral evidence transcript, video recording 1, and video recording 2

House of Commons Modernisation Committee

Access to the House of Commons and its procedures (1 April 2025): Robert Halfon, Dr Marie Tidball MP, Sarah Bool MP, Steve Darling MP, and Marsha De Cordova MP.
- Video recording

CSPAN

United States Senate Session, 31 March 2025: Senator Cory Booker (D-NJ) delivers the longest-ever Senate floor speech

Transcript

Please note, this transcript is automatically generated. There may consequently be minor errors and the text is not formatted according to our style guide. If you wish to reference or cite the transcript copy below, please first check against the audio version above.

Intro: [00:00:00] You are listening to Parliament Matters, A Hansard Society Production supported by the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust. Learn more at hansardsociety.org.uk/pm..

Ruth Fox: Welcome to Parliament Matters, the podcast about the institution at the heart of our democracy, Parliament itself. I'm Ruth Fox.

Mark D'Arcy: And I'm Mark D'Arcy. And coming up in this week's episode.

Ruth Fox: The sentencing mess. How the government got into a tangle about new criminal sentencing guidelines and how it plans to untangle it.

Mark D'Arcy: A matter of privilege. Is heavy handed policing interfering in the work of MPs?

Ruth Fox: And after a 25 hour speech brought the US Senate to a halt, could it ever happen at Westminster?

Mark D'Arcy: And Ruth, let's begin by talking about, as you described it, the sentencing mess. The Sentencing Council, the independent arms length body, [00:01:00] which to some extent has had outsourced to it the policy on how many years tariff there should be for a particular offender who's committed a particular crime, all sorts of issues of sentencing procedure, has basically landed the government in a very difficult position.

It's supposed to be an arm's length body, but it's now recommended something that's very, very uncomfortable for a government.

Ruth Fox: Yes. So what essentially it's done, uh, it has to consult on its guidelines, uh, periodically it held its consultation at the end of 2023, beginning of 2024. At the time, it was sort of passed over politically, both by the government and, and by the opposition.

Nobody really raised any questions about it.

Mark D'Arcy: Because this surfaced actually when the conservatives were still in government.

Ruth Fox: Yes.

Use the links below to subscribe to the Hansard Society's Parliament Matters podcast on your preferred app, or search for 'Parliament Matters' on whichever podcasting service you use. If you are unable to find our podcast, please email us here.

Apple

YouTube Podcasts

Spotify

More ways to subscribe

Parliament Matters homepage

Latest / Highlights

News / Parliament Matters Bulletin: What’s coming up in Parliament this week? 3-5 November 2025

The Defence Secretary and Chancellor face MPs questions, and David Lammy stands in for Sir Keir Starmer at PMQs. The Commons will debate the “Hillsborough Law”, as well as the Employment Rights and Public Authorities Bills. Peers will examine the Planning and Infrastructure Bill, Border Security Bill, and Tobacco and Vapes Bill. The Conservatives will choose Tuesday’s Opposition Day topic. Committees will hear from senior officials about Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US Ambassador, from George Osborne and Vince Cable on the Budget, from journalists on the Afghan data breach super-injunction case, and from former CIA and GCHQ directors John Brennan and Professor Sir David Omand about the UK–US relationship. The Lords assisted dying committee hears from the Health Minister and Chief Medical Officer.

News / Why did Nigel Farage's Ten Minute Rule Bill fail? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 112

Nigel Farage’s legislative bid to take Britain out of the European Convention on Human Rights failed but Labour’s hesitant response has raised questions about its strategy against Reform UK. We also discuss Lucy Powell’s election as Labour’s new deputy leader and what it means for the party’s budget battles ahead. Guest Sofia Collignon explores the growing abuse faced by MPs and candidates, and the need for tougher safeguards. Finally, a listener’s question prompts a discussion about the history and purpose of Westminster Hall, the House of Commons’ parallel debating chamber. Please help us by completing our Listener Survey. It will only take a few minutes.

News / Parliament vs. Prince Andrew - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 111

This week, we explore how far Parliament can go in holding members of the Royal Family to account, as pressure grows for MPs to scrutinise Prince Andrew’s finances and royal titles. We ask whether Nigel Farage should get a right of reply at Prime Minister’s Questions amid his growing prominence, and examine Labour’s reshuffle of select committee posts and calls for greater transparency in how they’re filled. Plus, a look back at the rebuilding of the House of Commons Chamber, 75 years after its postwar reopening. Please help us by completing our Listener Survey. It will only take a few minutes.

News / Parliament’s spying scandal: Why was the China case dropped? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 110

It’s been a tumultuous week in Westminster, with three ministerial statements on the China spying case and fresh questions about the collapse of charges against two alleged spies. We are joined by Cambridge public law expert Professor Mark Elliott to untangle the legal and political fallout, from espionage claims inside MPs’ offices to confusion over whether China was ever designated an “enemy state.” We also explore looming government challenges — the Budget, Afghan data leak, local election setbacks — and the membership of the new Select Committee to consider the assisted dying legislation in the House of Lords. Please help us by completing our Listener Survey. It will only take a few minutes.

Briefings / Assisted dying - The Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill: Rolling news

Stay informed with updates and analysis on the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill as it moves through Parliament. Learn about the debates, procedures, decisions, and key milestones shaping the assisted dying legislation.