News

Assisted dying bill - special series #16: The Bill makes its debut in the House of Lords - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 106

13 Sep 2025

As Peers embark on a marathon two-day Second Reading debate on the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill – the measure that would legalise assisted dying in England and Wales – we are joined by former Clerk of the Parliaments, Sir David Beamish, to decode the drama. With more than two hundred members of the House of Lords lining up to speak, Sir David explains why, despite the intensity of the arguments, no one expects the Bill to be rejected at this stage. Instead, the real fight will come later, after Peers get into the clause-by-clause detail and see what defects can be remedied.

Please help us by completing our Listener Survey. It will only take a few minutes.

LISTEN
Subscribe

We look ahead to the second half of the Second Reading debate next week to unpack the procedural chess moves. One amendment calls for a special select committee to examine the issue in depth, but there’s a risk that such a referral – while attractive in principle – would delay progress and could be seen as an attempt to derail the bill altogether. We also discuss a constitutional concern: the bill’s heavy use of delegated legislation, including “Henry VIII powers” allowing ministers to amend primary legislation by delegated legislation which is subject to less parliamentary scrutiny. Critical reports from the Delegated Powers and Constitution Committees have already put ministers on notice, and even the bill’s sponsor, Lord Falconer, concedes that some amendments will be unavoidable.

It has been a tumultuous political week, which has seen the departure of Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, and Britain’s Ambassador to Washington, Lord Mandelson, as well as a major ministerial reshuffle. Ruth and Mark look at the implications for Parliament. Will Lord Mandelson return to the House of Lords? Will the churn amongst ministers and the appointment of a new generation of MPs to posts in government disrupt the scrutiny of legislation and the work of select committees? And amidst increasing mutterings against Sir Keir Starmer, how might backbench Labour discontent manifest itself in the House of Commons?

Listen on our YouTube channel (captioned)

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Our guest

Sir David Beamish. ©

Sir David Beamish KCB

Sir David Beamish served as the Clerk of the Parliaments, the most senior official in the House of Lords, from 2011 to 2017. During his parliamentary career he held several key roles, including Clerk of the Journals, Clerk of Committees and Clerk of the Overseas Office. From 1983 to 1986, David was seconded to the Cabinet Office, where he served as Private Secretary to the Leader of the House of Lords and Government Chief Whip. He was knighted in 2017 for parliamentary service. He was joint editor, with Donald Shell, ofThe House of Lords at Work, published by Oxford University Press in 1993. Following his retirement he was appointed as an honorary Senior Research Associate of the Constitution Unit at UCL. He is the Chair of the Southwark Diocesan Board of Finance, an Honorary Steward at Westminster Abbey, and Vice-Chair of the Parochial Church Council of the parish of St Barnabas, Dulwich. David was the winner of BBC Mastermind in 1988, with his specialist subject being the life and times of Nancy Astor.

Resources

Hansard Society

House of Lords

Transcript

Please note, this transcript is automatically generated. There may consequently be minor errors and the text is not formatted according to our style guide. If you wish to reference or cite the transcript copy below, please first check against the audio version above.

Intro: [00:00:00] You are listening to Parliament Matters, a Hansard Society production supported by the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust. Learn more at hansardsociety.org.uk/pm.

Ruth Fox: Welcome to Parliament Matters, the podcast about the institution at the heart of our democracy, Parliament itself. I'm Ruth Fox.

Mark D'Arcy: And i'm Mark D'Arcy.

Ruth Fox: The bill to legalise assisted dying in England and Wales debuts in the House of Lords. We are joined by expert Lords watcher, Sir David Beamish, to analyse how peers received it, and what happens next.

Mark D'Arcy: And its chaos and churn at the top level of government as a wave of ministerial changes juts through Westminster.

Ruth Fox: But how will all this resound in Parliament and what might it mean for Keir Starmer?

Mark D'Arcy: Right, so here we are. The House of Lords has been getting its teeth into [00:01:00] the assisted dying bill, the Terminally Ill Adults End of Life Bill to give it its full title, which would legalise assisted dying in England and Wales. This is the second reading debate. Confusing really because it's the first actual debate they've had in it.

But that's parliamentary jargon for you. And their Lordships have a two day debate now scheduled because about 200 of them want to speak on this subject. The classic Lord syndrome of everything has been said, but not everybody has yet said it, I think.

And Ruth and I are joined today by Sir David Beamish, former clerk of the Parliaments, the Chief Clerk to the House of Lords. And before that, he was even secretary to the Chief Whip in the House of Lords as well. So someone who is an expert chamber watcher, someone with incredible experience of the workings of the upper house. So David, welcome to the pod, first of all. What have you made so far of the debate? Because there are all sorts of interesting tactical things going on here around various motions and amendments that have been put down.

But what's your general impression first of all, of the atmospherics?

Subscribe to Parliament Matters

Use the links below to subscribe to the Hansard Society's Parliament Matters podcast on your preferred app, or search for 'Parliament Matters' on whichever podcasting service you use. If you are unable to find our podcast, please email us here.

Apple Podcast logo

Apple

©

YouTube Podcasts

Spotify logo

Spotify

More ways to subscribe
Parliament Matters homepage

Latest / Highlights

Briefings / The assisted dying bill: A guide to the legislative process in the House of Lords

Having passed through the House of Commons, the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill - the Bill to legalise assisted dying in England and Wales - must now go through its legislative stages in the House of Lords. This guide explains the special procedures for legislation in the House of Lords, and for Private Members’ Bills in particular. It answers some frequently asked questions, including how Peers might block the Bill, and gives an explanation of each stage of the process, from Second to Third Reading.

10 Sep 2025
Read more

Briefings / Delegated powers in the assisted dying bill: Issues for the attention of the House of Lords

Like many pieces of primary legislation, the assisted dying bill leaves much of the practical and policy detail to be worked out later by Ministers through regulations. After the Bill’s Second Reading in the House of Commons, we published a briefing which drew attention to two of its delegated powers. But since then the Bill has been heavily amended, prompting new questions: how have its delegated powers evolved, do these changes strengthen or weaken the approach to the delegation of ministerial power, and are further amendments needed and if so, why?

29 Aug 2025
Read more

News / Parliament Matters Bulletin: What’s coming up in Parliament this week? 8-12 September 2025

The Assisted Dying Bill has its Second Reading in the Lords, while in the Commons the Chancellor and Defence Secretary are among the Ministers facing questions. MPs also begin work on the Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill and three other bills, on renters’ rights, bus services and pensions. Peers will examine bills on border security, planning, and children’s wellbeing, and will debate an Order to facilitate earlier prisoner deportation. Lisa Nandy appears before the Culture Committee, Lord Hermer before the Constitution Committee, and there is a pre-appointment hearing for the Registrar of Consultant Lobbyists. MPs debate two e-petitions on indefinite leave to remain, and Sharon White, the former boss of retailer John Lewis, is formally introduced to the House of Lords. Note: The Ministers identified in this Bulletin may change following the Prime Minister’s reshuffle of the Cabinet and junior ranks. ❓ We value your thoughts. Please click here to let us know what you think of the Parliament Matters Bulletin in our reader survey.

07 Sep 2025
Read more

News / Is Parliament at the root of the country's problems? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 105

Does Parliament itself lie at the root of some of Britain’s political and economic difficulties? Lord Goodman argues that it does and so makes the case for urgent parliamentary reform. This week we also examine the implications of a Downing Street reshuffle that has created a “Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister,” raising new questions about accountability in the Commons. The discussion ranges from Angela Rayner’s uncertain position, Nigel Farage’s controversial US appearance, and the Greens’ leadership contest, to the growing use of artificial intelligence in parliamentary work. Please help us by completing our Listener Survey. It will only take a few minutes.

05 Sep 2025
Read more

Submissions / Parliamentary scrutiny of treaties - Our evidence to the House of Lords International Agreements Committee

Our evidence on treaty scrutiny has been published by the House of Lords International Agreements Committee. Our submission outlines the problems with the existing framework for treaty scrutiny and why legislative and cultural change are needed to improve Parliament's scrutiny role. Our evidence joins calls for a parliamentary consent vote for the most significant agreements, a stronger role for Parliament in shaping negotiating mandates and monitoring progress, and a sifting committee tasked with determining which agreements warrant the greatest scrutiny.

03 Jun 2025
Read more

Categories

Themes

Contact

Legal

Fundraising Regulator logo